Ali Cyrus Saeed: I hear that your sister was the biggest influence on your music taste growing up. Who were her favorites?
Bruno Pernadas: She was a collector, a digger for vinyl, you know. Mostly from the 60s and the 70s. She loves Yes, The Beatles, Journey, and Supertramp. (Ali: Who were your favorites when you were a kid?) I really liked The Beatles’ records. And Brazilian records as well, like Maria Bethânia, Caetano Veloso, and Chico Buarque.
Young Fenimore Lee: When did you start messing around in bands?
Bruno: When I was a teenager, around 95-96. Mostly original material and a few covers. (Ali: Do you remember the covers?) The other guitar player, he liked to play “Creep”. And I hate that song. (laugh) I’m not a big fan of Radiohead. (Ali: Really?) Well, the first record, Pablo Honey, I used to like it. But after that, it didn’t hit me that hard, like it did most people. But I love everything Jonny Greenwood does otherwise.
Ali: When did you pick up classical guitar? What inspired you to do that?
Bruno: I was about 13. Most of my older friends played the guitar, that’s the only reason. I played the drums first, when I was really young, but that was not the kind of instrument your parents want you to have in their apartment.
People used to bring their own guitars to school and play in between classes. It was a thing. These days, because everybody carries their own phones, I don’t know if they take guitars or not. I don’t think they do. (Ali: In America, we actually take our guns to school.)
Young: Between 2003 and 2007, you went to jazz school at the Hot Club of Portugal? What’s that?
Bruno: It’s one of the oldest jazz clubs in Europe. It’s going to celebrate 75 years today, actually. They called it the Hot Club because there was this Hot Club in France fronted by Django Reinhardt and Stéphane Grappelli. Some of those musicians also played in Portugal during those post-war days. The Hot Club has a school attached to it; that’s where I studied.
After that, I went to the Superior School of Music of Lisbon. (Young: What was your experience like there?) It was great. It was the jazz department, but we mostly studied classical music.
Ali: You went back to teach at the Hot Club. What drew you to teaching?
Bruno: It started as a secondary job, but I came to realize that I’m pretty good at it.
Ali: What have your students taught you about music?
Bruno: That’s a really good question. When people started to learn jazz in Portugal, they had all these exercises and rules they took from Berklee. A lot of rules. For instance, there was this stupid rule that I didn’t understand at the time, and that I still don’t. That guitar players could not use open strings. Students nowadays look at the guitar as an instrument with which they can do whatever they want. They don’t know the rules even exist.
Ali: Let’s say you have a student who’s a musical virtuoso, but they struggle to make accessible, popular music. What would you say to that student?
Bruno: I would listen to records and talk about the production choices of each song. For instance, Quincy Jones is one of my biggest heroes. He has traveled all around the world to do jazz, contemporary music, soundtracks, pop music, everything. So, I would try one of those records — pick a producer and talk about the production of each record.
Ali: Who are your favorite composers for classical guitar?
Bruno: One of my favorites is Francisco Tarrega, the Spanish guitar player. Also some Argentinian music; there’s a lot classical guitar music because of the milongas and tangos. And the Brazilian composers, like Baden Powell and Heitor Villa-Lobos.
Young: This year, you’re celebrating the 10th anniversary of your debut album. Now that you’ve had the opportunity to revisit the album, how do you feel about it today?
Bruno: Just before we got on this call, I was working on the live arrangement for a song. I’m changing a lot of stuff that made sense at the time, but doesn’t make so much sense anymore. (Ali: What are some specific things you noticed?) Well, there’s a song that I don’t feel connected to anymore. It’s the folk song, “Premiére”. Some of the original brass arrangements I did for it had technical mistakes. For instance, I put the tenor a little higher than the alto. It’s gonna sound better if you change those voices, so the alto plays the higher note.
Ali: Who are the big influences in shaping the sound of that early record, outside of the Brazilian music and the jazz? Some names that come to my mind are Grizzly Bear, Animal Collective, Stereolab, Sufjan Stevens.
Bruno: You got two right. Grizzly Bear and Sufjan Stevens I don’t listen to. The other two, Animal Collective and Stereolab, were big influences. I was also listening to this band from LA called tUnE-yArDs and James Blake.
Ali: I’m surprised you don’t like Sufjan Stevens.
Bruno: People keep telling me that. (Ali: At some points on that debut album, you’re doing this minimalist / post-minimalist thing with the horns & woodwinds, and Sufjan does that all the time.) I know. It’s crazy, but it’s the truth. Once, I was in Japan, there was this interviewer, he could almost swear that I was connected to his music in a spiritual way. He went really far into my psychology.
Ali: Your music strikes a great balance between live performance and production, sound design, & effects. What is your philosophy for finding that balance between capturing musicianship and everything you do in the DAW, like software instruments and effects?
Bruno: Usually, when I’m working on my stuff, I don’t have a deadline. When I’m working for television and cinema, I use commercial studios, but for my stuff, I choose places where I can hang out for more than a month. So I’ll write some music on paper, take those scores to the ensemble of musicians, and try a lot of things during the rehearsals. I’ll maybe add more layers into it. Sometimes I use the sound of the demos because they were more magical in a way.
I often re-amp sounds. That’s when you pass the audio file of an instrument through another channel, and that channel can go to an amplifier or anything you want. Then, the output of that amplifier goes back into the software. You can transform the sound by using a distortion pedal or whatever you want. It’s a funny process because you go into a room, and you’ll hear a guitar coming out of an amplifier, but there’s no one there. We’re just sending the signal to the amp, and recording that same signal all over again.
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Ali: Going back to your influences, I wanted to know who your favorite MPB artists are. Justin, Young and I are big fans of Jorge Ben, Novos Baianos, and Elza Soares, who passed away recently. From your recommendations, I checked out Arthur Verocai. Fantastic debut album.
Bruno: Arthur Verocai is really really good, and Novos Baianos of course. Cartola is amazing, as is Simone, a singer from the 70s. Also Gal Costa, who recently died as well. I really like Piry Reis. He’s so underrated, which is sad. I have this little dream of trying to find his whereabouts and inviting him to sing a song with me on some record.
Ali: In the world of Brazilian Jazz, I know that Joao Gilberto and Tom Jobim are legends, and you’ve talked about some of the musicians associated with the Quarteto Novo, such as Edu Lobo and Hermeto Pascoal, of whom you’re an avowed fan. Who am I missing from this list of legendary Brazilian jazz or fusion artists?
Bruno: Those are the main ones, but there’s a few more I can mention. Airto Moreira, he’s a percussionist. He used to play with Miles Davis in the electric era band. Tania Maria, she sang in English, she’s really good on fusion stuff. She had this song that was very popular in Brazil and then in the US called “Come With Me”. Flora Purim, who at one point played with Hermeto Pascoal. Elis Regina, who is one of the most famous singers in Brazil.
There are hundreds, really. We Portuguese people tend to consume Brazilian culture, especially since the 50s, so we know all about that kind of music.
Young: In America, there’s a lot of awareness of the Brazilian scene in online circles, and in the 50s and 60s, Getz/Gilberto was a household name, but since then it’s sort of faded.
Bruno: But it’s coming back. For example, there’s a guitar player from Brazil called Pedro Martins. He released a great new record called Rádio Mistério and has a lot of guests, like Kurt Rosenwinkel, a guitarist from New York. He recorded some stuff in Mac DeMarco’s studio as well. And his girlfriend plays with Louis Cole. Antonio Loureiro is another Brazilian musician who went to study in LA. They’re all in the same group of friends. There’s this whole movement looking to recreate that spirit of 80s Brazilian fusion music, but with contemporary harmony and virtuoso solos.
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Young: Jazz music used to be more self-regulated by communities of musicians back in the day. Since then, it has become more regulated and practiced in institutions like universities. How do you think this has changed the culture of jazz and the music itself?
Bruno: During the 90s, the idea of developing jazz as a contemporary language led to some very serious & academic study of harmony and arrangements. By the 2000s, I think people started to get a little lost in the mathematics and all the possibilities that you have, so the music started becoming more complex and difficult to understand. There are a lot of geeks who are still really into that, and they want to stay in that world. But there are a lot of people who don’t, and they want to play the old way, where you learn all the tunes by heart, by ear, and you play in any key you want.
The trick is being able to perform every day, like some of my friends do. If they’re not gigging, they’re in some restaurant or random place having a Brazilian music jam session. Ten years ago, you would notice jazz performers usually playing with a music stand, always reading from music. Nowadays, that’s becoming less and less common again.
There are a lot of people who think it’s not a natural thing, to learn jazz in public schools or in institutions. Some people think if you study a language or any field too long, you end up being super mathematical and functional about the whole process, but that’s not true. If you’re a free person, you can engage with your passion without being overwhelmed by academic development.
Ali: Do you think hip-hop has played a role in influencing this turn in jazz post-2000s? That’s something that I’ve heard.
Bruno: I think it did. Like, BADBADNOTGOOD? You know that band? I played with them at a festival once, and I talked to the sax player about that. They became famous because they did these hip-hop covers, playing Dilla and other songs.
Ali: What has scoring for theater and film taught you about music?
Bruno: The importance of silence. Not only silence, but also not having too many notes. Sometimes, the movie has already got sound, even if it’s just traffic or people talking. Or, there can be the tension of not talking – it’s very important to have silence. Sometimes less is more.
Ali: Do you have any favorite pieces of your own, not just in your pop albums, but also your film scores and stuff?
Bruno: The last record, Private Reasons, has this song called “Step Out of the Light” [above]. I’m quite proud of that piece, especially the big arrangement for woodwinds and strings. It was so hard to put together. At one point, I thought about giving up, but I didn’t.
There’s also my soundtrack to a film called Patrick. There’s a piece that’s not featured in the film, called “Patrick String Quartet”. I really like that one.
Ali: Do you have any favorite film OSTs?
Bruno: Off the top of my head, I would say Vertigo. Bernard Herrmann, really amazing. Recently, I saw this movie with Tilda Swinton called I Am Love. The soundtrack is from another world. It’s by John Adams.
Young: What do you consider yourself first, or in what order: composer, guitarist, teacher, pop musician?
Bruno: I have to go with composer. Maybe fifteen years ago, when I was still a jazz cat playing all the time, I would say, of course, I’m a jazz musician. But nowadays, I have to say composer.
Young: Thanks so much for talking to us.
Bruno: No problem. Thank you guys, and take care.